Category: The Rave Board
Hi all, I've heard of this very good screen reader called NVDA, non-visual desktop access. I really like it a lot! It's more stable, it's easy to use, and most of all, it's totally free! They even make a portible version for a flash drive. I say screw freedom scientific and jaws, and go with non-visual desktop access!
I like NVDa a lot. It saved me a lot of times when my other screen readers would crash. NVDA worked because it doesn't use video intersepts.
But NVDa still needs more development and improovement. I wouldn't suggest to anyone to use it as their primary screen reader because there are things that it can't do such as having a mouse simulation like the jaws cursor. But it is a very promising piece of software.
Another free and more stable solution is system access to go at www.satogo.com
It is another screen reader which can work anywhere that there is internet available. You don't have to create an account with them but if you do it will remember your voice settings etc.
And you forgot to give the website for NVDA for others to try it. It is www.nvda-project.org
I like NVDA too because it comes with ESpeak, and they're Greek synthesys is great. I can see where the synth and the screenreader need improvements, but overall, I'm very impressed.
Does anybody know how to get the portable version of nvda working on a thumb drive? And doeas this system access to go work with windows xp?
The best thing about nvda is that it's stable, and free like screen access software should be!
Yes system access to go can work on windows xp. If you go to the NVDA website and click on download you will see two files. Installer and zip file. The zip file is the portable version and it can be copyed on any drive or cd and it can work from there.
sa to go is amazing kit. i use full SA, but have used SA to go and like it too.
Before running the portable NVDA, be sure to extract the zip file. If you have a good file compression utility, that should help. I like 7 zip file manager.
I'm actually using SA to go right now on the xp machine. Oddly enough, this one program (Free CD To MP3 Converter) won't work with JFW 4.whatever or with NVDA and I'm too lazy to install Hal/don't wanna have too many screenreaders on one machine. So I tried SA to go and it worked! Very impressed.
But I noticed that it seems like you can only use sa to go over the internet. What's up with that?
Yes you have to keep your internet explorer window with the satogo page open wile using it. If you close it the program stops. This is so because they will prevent people using it ofline i think. For ofline using there is the system access screen reader which is not free. This is how i understand it.
Thanks. I think i'll stick with window eyes
Hey I love NVDA!!! Very responsibe, works a lot better with open office than jaws, and works with the, ug, zune software! grin. I mean, jaws doesn't know there's anything there! And forget a mouse simulation, plug in a mouse and try it! it's sweet!!! I was able to open some programs, put the pc on standby and other stuff with the mouse!And hey, anyone tried the latest NVDA? I think it's 0.6 p1, but I recommend the snapshots. I know, the code is more unstable and possibly totally broke, but it gives you the latest changes and I've never seen any broken things. Cheers!
Please please please! Can anyone tell me, once and for all, if ESpeak will work on my Mac? Pou einai oi Ellenes? Voithise me, sas parakalo. I really! need a Greek synthesizer. I'm going nuts here with having to go back and forth between the two machines and then having to write in Greeklish all the time. I'm almost tempted to install Linux on this thing just for the Greek access.
Don't think you can, but if they're are any interested mac programmers on here who want to port ESpeak...
I don't really like NVDA much and I think they could do with changing the voice a bit.
It is not their job to make a voice. They just develop the screen reading software. It is up to the user to buy a good voice.
I sent an email to the developers raving about nvda. One guy emailed me back and was glad I liked it so much. Did you know? NVDA even works with skype chat! How much better can it get!
i adore nvda, and use it as my primary screen reader, with no problems as yet.
I still use JAWS. I wonder if NVDA will work in apps like WIndows Live Messenger, Thunderbird, etc? How well will it work with MS Word and Excel? If It works pretty good then I might very well not use JAWS for much anymore.
The place NVDA really falls down for me is in Textpad, my primary code editor environment. I love that app because you can save for any machine an attach any tools you want plus do all sorts of regular expressions, but NVDA doesn't see anything in the text window *at all*. Frankly that put me off trying NVDA seriously for a year, a text editor? What editors do other developers on here use with NVDA? Notepad or similar not good answers since you can't do the above nor search on regexp or other production-level development tasks.
I do use NVDA all the time on other's machines with a thumb drive when I've got to fix something there, say a family member or friend. In terms of review cursor not being present, that's not entirely true. Yes, a screen-based review cursor isn't present, but it's object-based, e.g. not where things are visually but where they are architecturally in the program and yes you can click. I don't know how you click on items on web pages, etc., where they're not registered as real objects, but just chunks of text with an onclick handler. But there's probably a way, and one can probably poke around in the source to get at data; I might just do that on my time off.
As to the voice, well it's responsive and for what I use it for - troubleshooting - it works very well. but it's free to you because grants are paying for it, not because the developers are either independently wealthy or starving to death. See data on the Mozilla Foundation -a great organization for all sorts of reasons as far as I'm concerned - but it's not being 'given' for free / out of thin air, it's being paid for by someone else, mythology and fun / childish conspiracy theories aside ...
Hi.
Since the topick was created a lot of things changed in nvda and now i can say that somebody could use it as a primary screen reader.
The latest stable release now is 2009.1 and it is very good.
Some of the new features include support for internet explorer. Before only firefox was supported. Also pdf support using adobe reader or acrobat is supported but i never used this myself.
Also now nvda can work on 64 bit versions of windows and it also speaks in the logon screen.
Only the installed version does that not the portable.
Now i use it as a primary screen reader because it works with all the programs i use.
These include internet explorer and firefox, windows live messenger, skype, adobe audition, word and microsoft outlook 2003.
Please note that the stable version doesn't support outlook yet but i downloaded the latest snapshot which works with outlook.
I am glad nvda exists and it is getting better every day.
Would still like to know what code editors it actually works with. The fact that I can't even use the text window of textpad - while understandable since it's not a standard edit - buffaloes me. Haven't got a straight answer from Google on that one. Textpad is extremely popular and other similar edits are out there. Their FAQ page doesn't address this, in other words, it's conspicuously absent. Besides me doing actual work, though, it's functional and now even handles embedded flash; in all ways a modern screen reader as long as the supporting app has IAccessible II and other similar technologies in it. Would love to hear back on what editors get used with it ...I'm not saying as fancy as JAWS with indentation level announcement via sound schemes or something, but actually reading the text there's a thought. <g>
Well I bitched, so I owe an answer. Here's the link to Notepad2, which although doesn't provide all that a full-featured dev editor does, both works with NVDA and is portable to the thumb drive so you can run it to modify data on a user's machine if you don't want to use Notepad, or need execute and / or extended functionality:
Click here to snag it
Interestingly I don't know how well NVDA's braille works with it because I was running JAWS but just ran NVDA on top. It puts all line numbers to the left rather than on the status bar unless there's a setting for this, and has a sort of 'execute open file' like unix command chmod +x $file; $file okay that's pseudocode but the point is the editor can go on your thumb drive and, although I haven't checked, I bet it doesn't do as Notepad does and leave an end of file character in a file. They don't offer a paid-for version with more features, it's WYSIWYG but for spot-checking and I could even see using it on PHP or PERL / Python - I use both consoles - so NVDA users have a non-rich-text editor that's not Notepad. No workspaces / includefile relationship stuff no macros or tool output regex but it will get you there when you need it with NVDA. Sorry to have belabored this, but one of NVDA's greatest aspects is it's so lightweight and responsive it's great for troubleshooting sluggish systems, even filled with wormware, which could never house a traditional screenreader, and having access to an editor like this means you can write a shell script fast that executes / runs to resolve conflicts on the fly. Not needed often perhaps, but ... man when you need it, nice to have the toolkit ...
Thanks for this awesome topic guys. I tried using NVDA once, but didn't quite like it. But now that I've read all of your reviews, I think I'll give it another shot.
A question I had though, is whether or not NVDA works well with ITunes. Hopefully it does, but I guess I'll find out soon enough.
I heard a podcast on Blind Cool Tech, and as a result, I'm giving NVDA a chance. The price is certainly right, and it seems to be quite stable. I just like being able to carry my screenreader in my pocket if I need to. It isn't the perfect sollution, but it does a nice job with several programs as has been said earlier.
Lou
Agreed; but with Notepad2, if your purposes are similar to mine anyway, it just expands your toolkit, like carrying an antivirus on the thumb drive. Don't forget you can install Firefox on a thumb drive too, and I don't know but I bet web visum will install to it, so you can do web-based assists as well. I know people use NVDA for more than tech stuff but it is great as part of the toolkit if you help others out, especially non-screenreader-users.
The problem I had with NVDA when i installed it for IT training purposes to one of my organisation's computers, is that the voice that came on after installation wasn't the easiest to understand. It sounded like something from the 90s.
I think they should make it possible to change that from start-up after the first installation. In my experience, some people have difficulty with Elequence, so to them, the voice on NVDA is impossible.
I have it on a thumb drive in another room, but I'm pretty sure you can change the synthesizer by goint to the Preferences submenu. After you do that, you can go into the voices submenu, also from the preferences menu. There are hot keys to access those, but I can't remember them off the top of my head.
Lou
Yes you can, but that works for the installed copy and I wouldn't recommend for thumb drives unless you can put a synth on a thumb drive; I don't know how or what. But yes were I to give a basic user NVDA I would set them up with a voice they could use from SAPI. Never even considered the training end, as I'm not a trainer, but I thought trainers only liked the screen readers with all the context help built in; they seem to make much over that. I should think NVDA would be their last choice on account of that. But I'm not a trainer so may be missing something.
The attractive thing about NVDA is that it is free. My trainees may not be rich and some don't have computers. Saving on screenreaders is helpful.
If they can use NVDA as they would Jaws, as you can with System Access to Go, it is a useful product. However, it is not helpful that they put one of the most difficult cynthesisers for beginners to understand as the default after installation. The person has just installed the product, and it isn't obvious for somebody with low computer skills how to change the voice.
They can't really do much about the voice because good voices are not free.
As an open source product nvda will have to use an open source voice like espeak.
I personally like this voice because it is nice and responsive. But i used synthetic speetch from the first day i started using computer so i am used to it. I can understand that a new user could find the voice strange to understand but with some practice they should be ok.
I agree, Espeak may be harder to understand than Eluquence, but if a person has experience with eloquence then they shouldn't have a problem with Espeak. Let's just be glad it doesn't use Microsoft Sam as the voice. *shudders at the thought* then people would really have trouble understanding it. I'm glad they did try to go with a good free alternative.
Agree with Senior as to why a trainer would recommend it. I know that with Vista, they have Anna as the voice. Anyone had any experience with it? I've also found Microsoft Mary to not be too objectionable in XP. Sam is extremely difficult to put up with.
Lou
there is a very good podcast on NVDA on blind cool tech at:
link to podcast
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1398NVDADemo.mp3
They show how it works on Internet Explorer and with microsoft Word and that it now can be used as a scanning program too. I am thinking about trying NVDA myself.
oops i put in the link wrong sorry. But that is the right link in there so just copy it to your browser.
You can change the voice, we set it up with an Icelandic TTS engine and it started automatically up with it every time, not sure how it'd work on a thumb drive though.
My two main problems with NVDA so far are its lack of braille support and its lack of IE support.
I have heard that IE support has been improved greatinly in the latest release and I have to check it out. Before you could not use any hotkeys like e for edit fields, b for buttons etc in NVDA but you could use them in Hal, System Access, Jaws and Window Eyes (or equivalent). I understand braille support is difficult due to the proprietary nature of some manufacturers, but hopefully an open standard will emerge and NVDA can plug into that.
We did an evalutation of it for our users in Iceland and found it's not quite ready but we think it has a good shot at being so with improvements in these two reas. Its support for Excel is really lousy so as a professional user you can't rely on it alone but that is something that I understand is not their priority, and it shouldn't be, but perhaps if we get a bit further they may be able to either improve it or allow some sort of scripting support or plug in support so an Excel feature could be added.
Well, the good news is that first leter navigation works, and that I've run it from a thumb drive without a problem. I want to put it on a u3 drive and see if it will automatically run.
Lou